When you search for a new car to replace an ancient daily driver, here’s the deal with carbon ceramic brake replacement costs.
For example, looking at vehicles like the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Wagon, many of the 2014-2016 models look well-priced, cool, high-tech, offer all-wheel drive (good for winter!), and they’re exciting to drive.
When writer Doug Demuro found a nice E63 Wagon for sale on Autotrader, and sent it to a friend Peri, and he replied: “You know that one has carbon ceramic brakes, right?” Apparently, the gold-colored calipers give it away.
Carbon ceramic brakes? In a luxury station wagon?
We looked it up, and Peri was right. Beginning in 2014, Mercedes-Benz started offering carbon ceramic brakes as an option on the E63 AMG and the E63 AMG Wagon — and not just any option, but an option with a sticker price of just under $13,000. Mind you, the base price of a 2014 E63 AMG Wagon was $103,400. This single option was nearly 13% of the car’s entire price. Imagine, if you will, a $2,500 single option on a Toyota Camry.
For those who question the sanity of anyone who would order such a thing, we explain the theoretical benefits of carbon ceramic brakes. These brakes are now offered by many high-end luxury and performance-oriented car brands. Carbon ceramic brakes are indeed better than steel brakes, but they don’t decrease stopping distance, as people commonly think.
Instead, they reduce brake fade, giving them a huge advantage at the race track. If you’re spending a lot of time on the track, your carbon ceramic brakes will never fade, even with many laps of hard driving. With steel brakes, you’ll feel brake fade fairly quickly.
That’s one benefit of carbon ceramics. Another benefit is that you don’t have to change your brake rotors as often as you do with steel brakes. Most steel-brake cars need new rotors every few years; a car with carbon ceramics just needs standard (and inexpensive) brake pad changes until it reaches about 100,000 miles, at which point you only need to change the rotors.
The High Cost of Carbon Ceramic Brake Rotors
This brings us to the downside: changing the rotors. According to several people on the AMG forums, they received a carbon ceramic brake rotor and pad change estimate of somewhere between $15,000 and $18,000 when the time finally came to do the work. We looked up the parts cost, and it appears that just the parts — rotors and pads — are somewhere in the neighborhood of $11,000. Add in labor, and that $15,000 to $18,000 seems high, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
In other words, the cool car you ordered with carbon ceramic brakes in 2014 will have a necessary repair of maybe $20,000 in about 2024. And this leads me to my point: Nobody will want these things when they’re used cars.
The thing is, while the carbon ceramic brakes may have made sense for the original owner, who spent $120,000 or more for the car when it was new, a 10-year-old AMG Mercedes is worth maybe $20,000 to $25,000 — and nobody in that realm is going to want to spend another $15,000 just to change the brakes. We seriously believe that this will dramatically impact the value of any AMG Mercedes (or BMW, or Porsche, or whatever) with carbon ceramic brakes once it’s more than seven or eight years old — much like how manual cars tend to become more valuable in the used market in part because they’re easier to fix if something breaks in the transmission.
Of course, this value hit won’t affect all cars. Some vehicles with carbon ceramic brakes that remain highly expensive — the Porsche Carrera GT, for instance, or the Porsche 911 GT2 — won’t see any value impact due to those brakes, because second, third, and fourth owners will be able to afford them. But otherwise, run-of-the-mill BMW and Mercedes models will get decimated as potential used buyers stay far away from a pricey brake job.
Can You Convert Back to Steel Brakes?
With all this said, there’s one potential saving grace. And, that’s a simple conversion back to steel brakes instead of a full replacement of the carbon ceramics — much like Land Rover and Audi allroad owners often ditch their fancy (but expensive) air suspension when it fails and instead revert to springs. Unfortunately, we’re told it just isn’t that simple: Steel brakes don’t bolt right back on, and in the Porsche world, there are perhaps few aftermarket companies that could offer a conversion for people facing exactly this problem. As the carbon ceramic option is relatively new in Mercedes and BMW models, such a company hasn’t yet sprouted up for these cars.
And so, if you’re buying an AMG and want to keep it for only a few years, carbon ceramics might be a good idea — because they’re relatively maintenance-free compared to normal brakes. But if you start creeping up on the 7- or 8-year-old mark and you go to sell your carbon ceramic-equipped car … don’t be surprised if it’s avoided like the plague.
why can’t you just replace CCB with steel rotors when they need replacing?
IMHO, Carbon Ceramic brake rotors and Carbon fiber wheels don’t belong on street vehicles. Oil from the road, other chemicals or debris will wreak havoc on those materials. They just aren’t durable enough. The CCB rotors may last 100K miles, but those are street miles. If the car is tracked, they will need replacement sooner. Just search for “carbon ceramic brakes for track days”. They just don’t last for track days.
Carbon fiber wheels don’t bend, they crack. If you curb one, it needs to be replaced because the structural integrity has been compromised. I’ve seen a picture of a carbon fiber wheel that cracked and started de-laminating. A piece whipped around and cut in to the brake line (not all the way through).
You aren’t considering that a rotor replacement brake job on an AMG Mercedes or Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is well over $5,000 with steel rotors. So why would somebody worry about having rotors that cost double that last 4 times as long (they do).
Hello Chuck! Great Point
If you think replacing ceramic brakes in an AMG is expensive, you should look into replacing the motor. Owning one of those without a warranty is foolish.
Some excellent points, but some things cannot be forgotten. You cannot swap a steel for same size ceramic- the weight alone will mess up the vehicule’s characteristics and ECU readings. CCBs are BIGGER but ultra light. Same size steel rotors and the vehicle might barely accelerate.
Second item, is that M Perf BMW are rated for 140,000 Kms despite spirited driving- but I also bed them in regularly. good ceramic brakes, if not tracked often, can reach 250,000kms + unless oil hits them or they get accidentally damaged (and why special tools needed when working on the car, even for winter wheel swap, a tech can crack a disc without knowing. Winter wheel change is likely more fatal to CCBs than anything else.
Finally, no evidence that they will drop in price. Price has been steady for a decade, well, maybe it dropped with inflation. But unless surely mass produced by some 3d printing, these things will cost 10k plus..
Yes, carbon ceramic braking systems are much lighter than steel ones, decreasing about 1/3 weight. And it is much safer to drive when people need to brake suddenly, for the continuous carbon fiber braking system, it can last 150,000 miles. As to the price, since there are only 3-4 companies in the world have the ability to produce the carbon fiber braking system, so perhaps it will keep the same for some period. But if anybody wants, you can contact with me Aiden, +8613691936163, from LeMyth (focused on continuous carbon fiber braking systems, having office and factory in China)
Delete this
Man I really thought that carbon ceramic brakes were maybe $1,500 per rotor or something, not $11,000+. I have a business (Araparts.com) selling ignition coils, but I might just think about carrying conversion kits as these cars age. Anything has to be better than $11,000!!
You could buy a Rolls with the money you spent on brakes!
If the elimination of brake fade is the only benefit, then skip the “carbon ceramic” checkbox and get a brake cooling duct kit installed at least on the fronts. Honestly though, most people who buy cars with these brakes aren’t going to the track anyway.
CC brakes are “relatively” new in consumer cars. Give the auto manufacturers and 3rd party part companies a few years for the economies of scale/manufacturing prices to drop. I expect the CC replacement for this car will be much more reasonable in 5-10 years.
Yes, it will be much more reasonable, and we are on it.
You can find this technology I’m talking about on Electric Cars. It’s called Regenerative Braking.
One benefit not mentioned is that there’s no brake dust. Makes keeping your wheels clean a breeze.
As a mercedes tech, ive seen a number of vehicles with carbon ceramic brakes. What you didn’t mention is how susceptible they are to damage caused by oils. The rotors can absorb oil and it will affect their ability to break and dissipate heat. I saw one w212 e63 amg wagon where a carbon ceramic rotor literally fell apart, like a section was missing from the braking surface. It was like a crater in the rotor. Im not sute if that was from a stone maybe thrown by a lawnmower, or a damaged spot from oil contamination, but it was an expensive repair for that customer. There will be companies to offer retrofits, if you ask me, carbon ceramic brakes are a terrible choice for a road cat, because they are so grabby in their operation, and expensive to boot. I will be sticking with steel, both for my brake rotors and my suspension.
Where there is a market, there will be an aftermarket. Look at Abbot and their airbag retrofit for air ride Mercedes. It’ll be expensive, but not cut off near vital body parts expensive.
Looking past the many factual inaccuracies in this article, count on more aftermarket options as demand grows. Converting to iron (not steel!) is only one of them. The real risk is CCM rotor damage, not wear, due to their hardness. The one thing secondary buyers should have checked is oxidation. If the car was driven hard enough to bring brakes temps up over 750°C (not easily achievable on the street), there may be some surface pitting/checking. If excessive, pad wear will go up substantially as the rotor acts like a cheese grater. Some CCM rotors can be carefully reground to improve the surface, while many cannot due to their construction. Buyer beware!
One other unmentioned benefit is weight reduction, Carbon rotors weigh quite a bit less than steel, Which reduces a whole lot of rotational mass. But, this is no excuse for a 15k brake job, on something short of a supercar. I wonder how long it will be untill bolt in steel rotors start being produced for these cars!
When the 2018 Mercedes E63 wagon hits the market later this year, I plan to trade in my current E350 wagon for the new rocket…and I will be getting the carbon brake option. Less weight, safer stopping on mountainous roads (no fade) and the fact that I will drive <80,000 over five years makes it a no brainer.
They reduce unsprung weight too.
Doug, I totally disagree. Most of the vehicles sold with Carbon Ceramics will never see 100,000 miles over 4 decades. Most likely gas will be banned and we will be electric only before they wear out. Thus, this issue will never arise. Plus, most likely the aftermarket will also produce replacement steel rotors for popular sizes eliminating the need. Also, Carbon Ceramic brakes are become more common and this typically leads to reduced manufacturing costs. I am not concerned.
Why would gas being banned have anything to do with the brake technology used? Sure, not as much stopping power will be necessary on cars that can turn the power to the wheels on and off at will (nobody who is not stupid has ever shifted their gas-powered car into neutral at a stoplight), but luxury electric cars will likely still be offered with carbon ceramic brakes and/or huge calipers as an option. It’s not like the master cylinder burns gas when fluid is pumped to the calipers.
“Imagine, if you will, a $2,500 single option on a Toyota Camry.”
sure, but you can’t get a base model with a V6. It’s part of a package. Plus, a whole engine is more important than the brakes, which are a wear item. The engine on a Camry is expected to last the car’s life.
Wont the price of these CC brake components go down in 7 or 8 years?
almost certainly.
Fluid pressures and fluctuations are also managed differently.
No one has mentioned the issue of carbon brakes sustaining damage from rocks etc – I remember reading that this can be an issue and some have failed well below 100k.
You assume that carbon ceramic discs will be just as expensive 10 years from now as they are today. How expensive were carbon ceramic discs in 2004, compared to 2014?
2006 to today the replacement costs are pretty much the same on Porsche and Ferrari. These will never be mass market (and should not be) so very limited volume in the world.
In regards to a “conversion”, I have a 2005 Lexus GX and one of the bags in my air suspension started to fail. Instead of spending $1.5K to replace it and then wait a year and the other one go out… I converted to Coil Springs. I anticipate that the right buyer will view this as a good thing when it comes time to sell, as the fail rate is considerably lower. Everything else in these cars are rock solid.
So what’s the engineering difference between swapping ceramic with steel? You have the rotor hat and the rotor and a couple of holes to line up.
Just curious what possible difference there is that requires a 3rd party retrofit to work. Is ceramic thicker? Proprietary B.S. ?
Lots of electronics issues will kill used cars anyway, it’s already getting difficult to find an ECU for many older vehicles at less than the cost of a whole car and the more modern stuff has a lot more ECUs in it than the older ones did. My mate has an effectively dead in the water Triumph motorcycle as he can’t even find a reapir company that will fix his ECU and replacements cost more than a whole bike of the same age.
Agree – I heard of someone with a ’93 Dodge Ram that won’t run because it needs a particular part that neither Chrysler nor anyone else makes anymore.
Eh, I’m sure by the time you need to get the brake rotors replaced you’ll have plenty of non-carbon replacement options. Or you could just find an E63 wagon that doesn’t have them.
In 2024 Corollas will rock CCB’s. Mercedes et al. will have discombobulated-protonic-plasma brakes. Get your wagon, it’s gonna be just a “brake Job”.
Counterpoint: 100,000 miles on your typical Carrera GT, GT2, SLS Black, etc. will take more than 10 years…and some may never even get close to those miles.
Also, another perk of carbon ceramic brakes is the drastic reduction in brake dust.
If your having to replace carbon ceramic rotors regularly then you should stop taking a hammer things or stop doing constant time attack laps around the ring… Come on Doug I know your better than this…
*you’re
I don’t track my cars, and I typically get about 100K out of a set of rotors. I do a lot of freeway driving, so I am actually coming up on 100K miles on the factory pads on my daily driver.
Nothing on these cars is simple. I’m sure parts swapping steel for ceramic is just the tip of the iceberg: you’d have to convince all of the vehicle’s computers and other systems to make the move too. Likely not trivial.
If I was facing a $15k brake change, why wouldn’t I source non-Carbon Ceramic factory brakes or a high-quality aftermarket solution like AP Racing or Brembo? Solve the problem forever for $4k-$6k and parts will be cheap going forward.
That is already who makes the factory parts. They do charge $10k plus for parts alone
Two other significant advantage (for me) of CCBs… there’s no brake dust and they typically bite much harder. I know it sounds insignificant, but on a 991, its worth it to me.
I’m not sure about your assertion that the fancy rotors will need to be replaced at 100,000 miles. I have 85k on my steel rotors and original pads and they are in fine shape. But my commute is all highway.
Is 100k the manufacturer (der Hersteller) recommended rotor change interval?